OSW Mmos to PS5

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dvim
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:38 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by dvim »

GeekyDeaks wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:26 pm After a bit of logging and looking at what was going on with the FFB constant force in the vanilla build, I noticed that there were huge sudden changes in direction just prior to the wheel going over the 0 point. I suspected this was the 'kick' feeling you experience in the wheel, so I decided to only apply the gain when the direction of the constant force changed sign (effectively we mute one sample of the FFB instead of all of them in the range). So far I'm a lot happier with the results as the little 'kick' around the mid point feels more like in the vanilla build when it occurs, but it doesn't result in positive feedback oscillations.
Just tried out the latest build with updated g29_correction settings. It gives me more oscillations compared to the initial build. But these oscillations are only a problem if I let go of the whell. When wheel is in hands, the oscillations are barely noticeable. And the "notchyness" at the wheel center feels way better than in the original build.
Looking at the numbers closer, I realised that the wild swing seems to be because GT7 is not kicking out FFB values less than about 1800, so it goes from a value >+1800 to <-1800 in one FFB report. I'm now thinking another approach might be to logarithmical map the values below a configurable point, say 5000, to smooth out the curve when it starts to change direction.
Interesting. Before trying out your builds I greatly reduced oscillations by increasing Inertia to 8% in my Simucube Configuration tools. I used to do this in KartKraft as used to have wild oscillations also. Of course all of these Simucube filters are about smoothing out the signal with different approaches. And your latest idea is a very targeted one for this particular situation, which sounds great!
GeekyDeaks
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:44 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by GeekyDeaks »

dvim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:05 am Just tried out the latest build with updated g29_correction settings. It gives me more oscillations compared to the initial build. But these oscillations are only a problem if I let go of the whell. When wheel is in hands, the oscillations are barely noticeable. And the "notchyness" at the wheel center feels way better than in the original build.
You might want to reduce the zero_gain back down to about 20. I was really just playing around trying to find the sweet spot at which it wouldn't start positive feedback oscillations on my simagic to try and avoid dampening the signal too much and 50% seemed to be about that point. I get oscillations, but they are more like steady little wobbles. As you can probably appreciate, playing around with the values takes a while.
Killamunch
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:05 pm

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by Killamunch »

I would say I have the same experience on the latest build with my SC2PRO. Most of my filters are turned off within TrueDrive. I get oscillations but only when I let go of the wheel. Generally speaking, I can feel oversteer quite well. GT sport kerbs and bumps used to feel good but I'm not really feeling those anymore but that could be a GT7 thing. All in all I'm pretty happy with the results.

Just wondering what rumble, constant and spring values you are running in GIMX.
dvim
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:38 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by dvim »

GeekyDeaks wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:42 am The thing I was looking at last time was the wild swing between the direction of the force, but I noticed this morning that it looks like it's occurring when you turn past the point at which the wheels are pointing and it's probably not something associated with the 0 point on the axis. You can see this effect in game by stopping the car and then turning the wheel far off to one side, then letting the FFB bring the wheel back until you are no longer trying to overcome the elasticity of the tire - if you let go at this point it starts to oscillate.
This is a very good observation. I also played around with the stationary car and wheel not centered. It feels like when steering wheel is crossing the point when there is the smallest amount force coming from tires, not only there is kick of force feedback, it also feels there is an empty gap in FFB, which is surrounded by FFB kicks.

The same effect is also felt quite strongly when weaving with a car at medium speeds. When the weight transfer crosses from one side to another, the same notchy feel of missing FFB surrounded by FFB kicks can also be felt.
GeekyDeaks wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:24 am You might want to reduce the zero_gain back down to about 20. I was really just playing around trying to find the sweet spot at which it wouldn't start positive feedback oscillations on my simagic to try and avoid dampening the signal too much and 50% seemed to be about that point. I get oscillations, but they are more like steady little wobbles. As you can probably appreciate, playing around with the values takes a while.
Thanks, I'll play around with it.
dvim
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:38 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by dvim »

Killamunch wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:35 am Just wondering what rumble, constant and spring values you are running in GIMX.
I have not changed those. What are your settings?
gamechanger
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:04 pm

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by gamechanger »

dvim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:05 am
GeekyDeaks wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:26 pm After a bit of logging and looking at what was going on with the FFB constant force in the vanilla build, I noticed that there were huge sudden changes in direction just prior to the wheel going over the 0 point. I suspected this was the 'kick' feeling you experience in the wheel, so I decided to only apply the gain when the direction of the constant force changed sign (effectively we mute one sample of the FFB instead of all of them in the range). So far I'm a lot happier with the results as the little 'kick' around the mid point feels more like in the vanilla build when it occurs, but it doesn't result in positive feedback oscillations.
Just tried out the latest build with updated g29_correction settings. It gives me more oscillations compared to the initial build. But these oscillations are only a problem if I let go of the whell. When wheel is in hands, the oscillations are barely noticeable. And the "notchyness" at the wheel center feels way better than in the original build.
Looking at the numbers closer, I realised that the wild swing seems to be because GT7 is not kicking out FFB values less than about 1800, so it goes from a value >+1800 to <-1800 in one FFB report. I'm now thinking another approach might be to logarithmical map the values below a configurable point, say 5000, to smooth out the curve when it starts to change direction.
Interesting. Before trying out your builds I greatly reduced oscillations by increasing Inertia to 8% in my Simucube Configuration tools. I used to do this in KartKraft as used to have wild oscillations also. Of course all of these Simucube filters are about smoothing out the signal with different approaches. And your latest idea is a very targeted one for this particular situation, which sounds great!

I have tried many different combination with True drive, if you want to minimize the oscillation, the FFB quality will be reduced.
can you upload your setting to TD and we can have a try ?
Thanks.
Killamunch
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:05 pm

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by Killamunch »

dvim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:51 am
Killamunch wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:35 am Just wondering what rumble, constant and spring values you are running in GIMX.
I have not changed those. What are your settings?
Rumble 110, constant 75, Spring 40, and Damper 60.

I haven't played with these much tbh. I'm assuming the rumble actually makes 0 difference?
dvim
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:38 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by dvim »

gamechanger wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:53 pm I have tried many different combination with True drive, if you want to minimize the oscillation, the FFB quality will be reduced.
can you upload your setting to TD and we can have a try ?
Thanks.
I have quite dated wheel setup of OpenSimWheel by Augury. I have never tried True Drive before. After downloading and running it today, it does not seem to start for me. But the settings in True Drive I think are the same as in the Simucube Configuration Tool. Here are the settings I use with the unpatched gimx:

Image

Note that additional friction, damping and inertia makes the wheel a bit sluggish, which is not ideal. I prefer using GeekyDeaks patch than this. Also the notch filter of 8Hz gets rid of these high frequency oscilations while the car is stationary.
Killamunch wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:04 pm Rumble 110, constant 75, Spring 40, and Damper 60.

I haven't played with these much tbh. I'm assuming the rumble actually makes 0 difference?
I think these are four sources of information to the final FFB signal. And the numbers control how much each of the source inpact the final signal. I keep them all at 100 as I want to get as much information as possible.

And you are right - rumble strips do not have any FFB signal for me as well. There is just an audio queue that you are driving through one.
gamechanger
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:04 pm

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by gamechanger »

dvim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:03 pm
gamechanger wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:53 pm I have tried many different combination with True drive, if you want to minimize the oscillation, the FFB quality will be reduced.
can you upload your setting to TD and we can have a try ?
Thanks.
I have quite dated wheel setup of OpenSimWheel by Augury. I have never tried True Drive before. After downloading and running it today, it does not seem to start for me. But the settings in True Drive I think are the same as in the Simucube Configuration Tool. Here are the settings I use with the unpatched gimx:

Image

Note that additional friction, damping and inertia makes the wheel a bit sluggish, which is not ideal. I prefer using GeekyDeaks patch than this. Also the notch filter of 8Hz gets rid of these high frequency oscilations while the car is stationary.
Killamunch wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:04 pm Rumble 110, constant 75, Spring 40, and Damper 60.

I haven't played with these much tbh. I'm assuming the rumble actually makes 0 difference?
I think these are four sources of information to the final FFB signal. And the numbers control how much each of the source inpact the final signal. I keep them all at 100 as I want to get as much information as possible.

And you are right - rumble strips do not have any FFB signal for me as well. There is just an audio queue that you are driving through one.

from your screen show, I think the game will produce Damper and Spring Effect only, the other option should be no effect to the game.
for the notch filter, I tried to enable and it will reduce the oscillation problem but it will also reduce the density of the FFB.
right now I am at the sweet spot which still have some FFB and oscillation is minimal. of course this is not ideal situation so I will do some more test with the last update of geek's version.
GeekyDeaks
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:44 am

Re: OSW Mmos to PS5

Post by GeekyDeaks »

Hey all. One more build pushed to github: https://github.com/GeekyDeaks/GIMX/rele ... 8.0-g29c.4

This one tries to simply stretch the lower values being sent to the G29 to help smooth out changes in direction. It uses different parameters to the previous approach, so you will need to update the profile xml. An example of what I have currently been using with my simagic is as follows:

Code: Select all

<g29_correction min_gain="20" range_start="1000" range_end="10000"/>
The range is actually the FFB constant force values, not the axis. What this tries to do is map the FFB values from 1,000 - 10,000 to something closer to 0 - 10,000, but still applying a minimum gain to stop it being forced to 0.

I might actually stick with this for a while for some longer testing as it feels ok on my setup using the same Alpha Manager settings I have for AC/AMS2. The only bit I am not 100% happy with is that the FFB goes a little light just as you start moving the car, but it quickly gains some weight.

Anyhow, see how you get on....
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